Billy the Ex-Bethelite

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Posts by Billy the Ex-Bethelite

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  20

  A few more random thoughts on the new Kingdom Hall design meeting

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  left completely unsaid at the meeting: who is going to be the owner of the property & building when all of these new khs are built?

  in the current arrangement, in most cases, a local trust is set up to hold ownership.

  of course, the most likely answer is "the watchtower (or whatever shell corporations they set up) will own the land & building".

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Is this the look they're going for?

  
  

  

  
  

  Or something more like this?

  
  

  

  
  
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  40

  Ony J.W.'s could do this and not question what is going on

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the meeting today several elders commented about the wonderful program that they attended yesterday on the new kingdom hall designs.

  they said that the new halls are going to be so beautiful with lots of windows and glass panels and that the lights will be kept on in the lobby 24/7 so that you can see into the hall at night and that thousands of these halls must be built.

  then five minutes later they are talking about how close the end is and that we will be meeting in basements in the near future.

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Something that has plenty of windows on one side and could easily be converted into a coffee shop or clothing store or the like.

  It only needs to be a KH for one night and Sunday morning each week. The rest of the week it can be an Apple Store.
  
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  96

  21 Years as an Elder, 5 as an MS, I will never be that guy again.

  by James Jack in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was deleted as the cobe after i let my adult child move back home and he admitted that he fornicated under my roof while my wife and i where away on a rbc project.

  of course the elder mode in me kicked him out of the house.. the elders moved quickly to remove me because i was too involved in "theocractic activities", i had neglected my adult son.. i accepted this primarily because i didn't want to serve with a boe that did not want me.

  i was devastated however because it was the only life i knew.

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Welcome back!

  I took on more secular work because it dawned on me that I had no retirement plan and I was 52 at the time, this "System of Things", wasn't supposed to last this long. For the first time in my life, I was afraid of the future.

  A year ago, my parents used the line on me: "If armageddon comes this year, do you think you will be ready?"

  I gave an okay answer. But after some thought, I wish I would have responded, "If it's coming this year, bring it on. I'm ready to state my case to god. What I'm not ready for is this system lasting another 20 or 30 years. I've frittered away most of my life because ever since I was a child, I thought it was coming in the next year or two. But now I'm pushing 50. 50! In 20 years I'll be past retirement age, and I'll have nothing to live on."

  "The BOE would like to see  100%"! I was so embarrassed, because the wife and I were part of the 12 that didn't sign up. Further more, after the meeting, each Elder an application in their hand and approached those who had not signed up.

  After I'd left bethel, was still an elder, but not a pioneer, there was one of those months when all the elders except me aux. piod. It happened to come up at one point that one of those elders made it a point to say that all except one of the elders was able to aux. pioneer. I responded with, "I was a pioneer and served at bethel for a total of over 15 years. That's a long time in the full-time and special full-time service. Good for you guys that you aux pioneered. I did that back when I was a teenager. Try reg pioneering and bethel service, then come back and talk." At that point, I wasn't embarrassed, because I didn't care anymore. I was here learning TTATT and was trying to figure out how to get out.
  

  The next meeting I was called to the back room with 2 Elders and counseled never to question an Elder in front of others.

  Toward the end, it was easy for me to avoid the elders because they were avoiding me. Here's why:
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/255058/exjw-psychology-103-lets-reconsider-confidentiality
  They couldn't give me the usual verbal beatings since I'd tell everyone everything that happened.
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  24

  So my dad comes from vacation and ???!!!

  by Kool Jo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hello folks.....so in an earlier thread i started, you'd realize that my father and i are quite close, we talk about almost everything/anything.. he traveled outside the country (he's semi-retired), enjoying the fruitage of his hard labor during his younger years.

  so he recently returned home after he and mum went away to catchup with some old friends in another country.. upon his returning home, and subsequently to the meetings, he was told that a decision was made to strip him of his "field overseer" role, but will still continue to be an elder.. the reason...he goes away for too long too often...you can't be away from your congregation for three months out of the year!!!???

  has anyone else had this experience before?

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Things like this can be very arbitrary from congregation to congregation and CO to CO.

  Ugh! service overseer, secretary, WT study conductor, school conductor, ... I cant say that any of them were very good at handling their positions in the congregations I was in. The only time positions were changed were (1) when someone moved, removed, or died, (2) someone else actually wanted the job, (3) the CO said someone had to go.

  And I've seen it enough times where a bro gets ambitious and wants to be secretary or conductor or something. Maybe he'll be gung-ho the first few months, but usually by the second CO visit afterward, his passion is deflated.
  
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  13

  More education bashing in April 2015 simplified watchtower

  by hoser in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  elders in wealthy lands may find it difficult to encourage baptized brothers in their 20s or 30s to do more in the congregation.

  ex- perienced elders in about 20 lands told us why they believe that some young brothers do not do more in the congregation.

  most of them said that when some brothers were young, their parents did not encour- age them to set goals in jehovahs ser- vice.

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  ...when some brothers were young, their parents did not encourage them to set goals in Jehovah’s service.... their parents encouraged them to set goals involving higher education or a career in the world!

  News flash! These parents are called "loving"!

  If the parents are not wealthy but living in a "wealthy land", they may have already struggled all their lives to feed the family, buy school and meeting clothes, put gas in the tank for field serve-us, etc. So when they see their kids have some intelligence, why condemn them to the same fate of struggling in poverty?

  And if the parents are wealthy, do they really want to support their kids their entire lives? I think we've all seen that. I lived it! While my parents were proud of my "spiritual progress", I know it troubled them that I basically lived in poverty compared to how I could live. And after bethel, I was broke with no useful job references or opportunities. After struggling for years, the reality that "higher education" would free me from struggling without hope, the "JW spirituality" of my parents was eclipsed by the love of my parents.

  Watchtower can say whatever they want. For me, "higher education" has freed me from a life that was going nowhere. And as far as my "career in the world", I'm working fewer hours now than I did in bethel or when I was working after bethel.
  
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  65

  The Fear mongering of this weeks WT study!

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you all read this weeks study article?.

  oh my word it is full of fear inducing tactics....doom and gloom outlooks.... anxiety inducing methods to develop absolute control over witnesses and cripple them in any attempt to think for themselves!.

  (notice i am saying "themselves" rather than "ourselves"?!

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  The whole article is a repeat of stuff we'd studied about a billion times before. The last subheading of 3 paragraphs seems to be quite a disconnect from the first part. Yep, it's still entirely crazy, paranoid, false prophecy. But it used to be stuff that would merit an entire article or two with even more speculation and much more stuff about the North/South Kings, the cry of peace and security, the destruction of Babylon the Great, the role of the governments and the UN. But here it's just a few paragraphs, pretty bare bones, but with a picture.

  "After the destruction of Babylon the Great, there will be an all-out assault on Jehovah’s people, and at that time we will need to be under the protection that Jehovah will provide for his servants."

  So, how soon can we expect to see Islam just disappear. And the Catholic Church is still very much alive, despite the fact that Boozerford was sure that he'd destroy it.
  

  "...the “inner rooms” might well be connected with our local congregations."

  Really? MIGHT be? Or is it a prophecy about the modern invention of bathrooms?

  "Hide yourself for a brief moment..."

  Is that "brief" as in 1, 2, or 3 overlapping generations?

  And if WT is so certain that attack is imminent, why have they built a remote compound where the GB will be sitting ducks for attack? Why has all the money been moved to the branch to be easily frozen by the government? Wouldn't it be wiser if the local congregations have the opportunity to keep control of the assets to provide for themselves?
  
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  65

  The Fear mongering of this weeks WT study!

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you all read this weeks study article?.

  oh my word it is full of fear inducing tactics....doom and gloom outlooks.... anxiety inducing methods to develop absolute control over witnesses and cripple them in any attempt to think for themselves!.

  (notice i am saying "themselves" rather than "ourselves"?!

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  

  During the “great tribulation,” we will need to remain closely associated with our local congregation (See paragraphs 16-18)
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  65

  The Fear mongering of this weeks WT study!

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  have you all read this weeks study article?.

  oh my word it is full of fear inducing tactics....doom and gloom outlooks.... anxiety inducing methods to develop absolute control over witnesses and cripple them in any attempt to think for themselves!.

  (notice i am saying "themselves" rather than "ourselves"?!

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2014846
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  39

  received revealing "witness" in parking lot

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a few weeks ago i was working out of my home state and was in a grocery store parking lot when i received my first jw witness since leaving jwdom.

  a youngish-looking lady was sitting in an suv parked next to my car and i was about to get in my car to leave.

  she opened the door and asked whether she could give me something to read (had a tract in her hand)..

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Good job!

  Several  times (at least three) when I would mention specific things wrong with JWdom (either current or past) she said: “Well, I’m sorry you feel that way.”

  Good grief. You weren't talking about your feelings, you were talking about facts... the fact that JWs are proven false prophets.

  The organization has dumbed down at the same time that accessibility to accurate information has ramped up.

  Her: "Let me give you this tract so you can go to our website."

  You: "That's okay, I'll just google 'Jehovah Witness'."

  I wonder how she'd respond.
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  26

  Watchtower has a Philosophy of Totalism

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  cults tend to have a total explanation for everything- everything that ever happened, everything that is happening now, and everything that ever will happen.

  that certainly fits watchtower.

  they have a black-and-white perception of everything, they are never wrong, there are no gray areas.

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Billy, uniforms would look too weird to the outsiders.  

  Agreed. They don't want to look too weird... but they have no problems acting strangely, talking nonsense, and trying to teach rubbish to outsiders. So they can be weird, just don't look weird.
  

  And there are gray areas, but not to Headquarters or your local BoE.  

  Headquarters certainly set a terrible example trying to make gray areas completely black-and-white. For supposedly being a "spiritual paradise" filled with "spiritually mature" brothers and sisters, bethel "family" had tons of rules for everything, well beyond the few rules of my family at home. Your room was policed for what music you had, pictures, etc. and had to be completely clean and organized before the housekeeper got there. My mom was satisfied as long as my room smelled okay and wasn't a serious fire hazard. The clothing rules were crazy. With no casual clothes allowed in the lobby, you're expected to go out for pizza with friends or to play football in the park wearing a tie? My parents didn't care as long as there were no "dirty" words on my t shirt, but I had to look right for the meetings. The bethel routine was, one person does something that Ted Jaracz or George Couch didn't like, so some rules get explained at Morning Worship. Then as the list of rules grow, they become harder to remember, new arrivals aren't aware of them all, and older members are incapable of reasoning on things, just unquestioningly trying to follow rules.
  

  A handful of things are conscience matters and the conscience should be trained by the literature and the leaders.  Anything where they didn't clearly spell out directions, you should come to them and ask and abandon an independent path when they tell you something different.

  I'm guessing that there are others here that knew the type of elder that would condemn things after the fact that they said nothing against beforehand. Or the type that would allow their own kids to do things that other kids would not be allowed to do. Hmmm, examples, a sister with unbelieving family would be directed by the elders and shown in WT publications that it was wrong to celebrate Thanksgiving with her family. Yet, she later hears that several of those elders had family dinners on Thanksgiving. Time to try to repaint that gray area, "It's okay because we went out in service that morning." "Our whole family is JWs so it's okay." "We had lasagne, not turkey, so our family dinner wasn't Thanksgiving."

  In bethel, we had what we called, "The Book of Angles." There were so many rules and procedures to follow that it became impossible to get some things done, and it was extremely difficult to do some things that we wanted to do. So instead of facing this crap straight on, we would come up with "angles", ways to get around rules and requirements without fully breaking them. Or having enough justification in order to explain away some conflict. This attitude trickles down to the congregation. Example: "No higher education!" Yet the elders will exploit the angle, "It's okay because my kid lives at home, is auxiliary pioneering, plans to go to bethel, and we're certainly not encouraging others to pursue higher education."

  So to complicate what would otherwise be a gray area, a lot of us figured ways to make those "bad" areas, "good" for our case.

  It is, after all, a crazy cult.